Rights Abuses in Chechnya: Interview Transcript

Katarina Sokirianskaia is a case worker for Memorial, a Russian human rights organization that monitors kidnappings and abuse in the northern Caucases. Memorial says it has evidence that Russian forces and Chechen security forces allied to Russia have been involved in 3,000 kidnappings in the region since 1999.

Katarina Sokirianskaia is a case worker for Memorial, a Russian human rights organization that monitors kidnappings and abuse in the northern Caucases. Memorial says it has evidence that Russian forces and Chechen security forces allied to Russia have been involved in 3,000 kidnappings in the region since 1999.

Kevin Sites asked Sokirianskaia about Memorial's work in

-Hot Zone senior producer Robert Padavick

KATARINA SOKIRIANSKAIA: We have so far registered about 3,000 cases of kidnappings. And this, keeping in mind that we only monitor 25-30% of the Chechen territory — so the figures are probably much higher.

KEVIN SITES: Now, what's the motivation behind these abductions?

SOKIRIANSKAIA: The motivation is to suppress or defeat the forces which are opposing the Federal army in Chechnya, number one. Number two is to control the society by penetrating it with this kind of fear. Those who have the will to resist, they are eliminated. The others are simply threatened this way.

SITES: There is a legitimate separatist movement within Chechnya, but there is also definitely terrorism. [Chechen guerilla leader Shamil] Basayev and the Beslan school massacre was an example of horrific violence perpetrated on innocents. And in some cases, combating that kind of terrorism will take very strong tactics. Would you agree with that, or is that something that is outside of your view here?

SOKIRIANSKAIA: After this terrible crime in Beslan — I am an eyewitness to Beslan, I was near the Beslan school when the storming took place, and this is the worst thing I have ever seen in my life — I definitely agree that these types of things require the most serious response.

After this happened in Beslan, [Russian] President [Vladimir] Putin was on TV and he declared that Russia was under attack — international terror. In this way he's kind of projected the aggression of people, the fear, to this blurred international actor. But in fact, the problem is that terrorism in Russia is homegrown; it is domestic. And it is rooted in the war in Chechnya — with protracted, unresolved conflict in Chechnya.

I believe that even such terrible crimes, they have to be combated within the frame of the law. Otherwise, violence reproduces violence, and you have people like Basayev taking schools. Because [Russian forces] produce terror by kidnapping people, by torturing people, by fabricating criminal cases against them.

If you have a young man whose brother or two brothers were kidnapped, and they're missing without a trace, and if he himself went through a terrible experience with torture ... no wonder that he might join combatant groups or radical groups. Actually you can see how the separatist movement has radicalized in the last 10 years. It has developed a very strong, terrorist, radical wing. And I think this is the result of failed policy in Chechnya.

SITES: How do security forces combat this particular type of terrorism, which is mixed in with a nationalist separatist movement, in an effective way — without violating civil or human rights?

SOKIRIANSKAIA: Well it is my understanding — I don't have a remedy for all cases, I know about cases I work on — I think the Russian government has to negotiate with the separatist movement. It's a political conflict, it was possible to negotiate and it still is. They have to strike a deal with the separatists.

[The separatists] have already declared that they basically would agree to some kind of scheme of Chechnya remaining part of the Russian state, but in a way they see it. And then, join efforts to get rid of the terrorists. If the separatists can influence the terrorists in one way or another, this only makes them better partners for negotiation. Because by striking a deal with them, you get rid of the terrorist problem.

I think if we observe the law, we stop reproducing terrorists. We cut them off the social basis. Because they employ the local grievances — they employ the dissatisfaction of people.

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